Comments on Igneous Quill: The Check That Controls

I couldn't agree more:

If we have hired ...

2007-11-21T22:23:00.000-05:00
I couldn't agree more:

If we have hired ministers, they should be preparing the church to have no paid ministers, or else to provide some stipend to their elders and others who do well in ministry.

My experience has been that churches that function more like family--and less like a corporation--tend to need its people to lead from within. My house church community in Portugal Th Lisboa Matrix forced me into places of leading from my gifts, because no one can be a spectator in a church that meets in cafes, on beaches, and in living rooms.

Yep - we be thinking alike bro. Good word.

2007-11-15T20:52:00.000-05:00
Yep - we be thinking alike bro. Good word.

Hi Adam. I found this post through a comment you ...

2007-11-15T15:11:00.000-05:00
Hi Adam. I found this post through a comment you left on Pastor Phil Wyman's blog. I'm glad I read this, as I enjoyed your thoughts.

Interestingly, one of the things I mentioned in my comment on Pastor Phil's blog is how "paid ministry" might contribute to the whole idea that the minister is the "guy that does it all." It seems to me that this runs parallel to your own thoughts about "career pastors" and satisfying the vendor-expectations of a church.

At any rate, thanks for sharing such insightful thoughts.

I like what you say about one man show pastors. I...

2007-11-15T14:50:00.000-05:00
I like what you say about one man show pastors. I also agree that there is definitely a place for full-time paid ministry. I think we are all more controlled by the dollar than we think, and it shows in our methods and decisions. Moreover, what you are noting about discipleship within a church body needs to be said more and more often.

As an aside, can you correct the tag to my post at charisshalom? It has an unnecessary question mark that won't allow linking to my blog.

Alan,

Reading the whole post I think you ge...

2007-11-15T13:35:00.000-05:00
Alan,

Reading the whole post I think you get the idea that I believe there is a time and place for paid ministry, and that yes this is what Paul meant. Further, my view of what Scripture means regarding Elders, Deacons and Evangelists is quite different from that held by most Baptist churches. Then again, I'm not Baptist! Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Fernando,

I've seen the same exact thing. Further, I've watched missionaries I met in Brazil when I was a starry-eyed college student go on to very comfortable ministries with large churches in the States. It's all about career growth. Still, I have a lot of respect for these guys, however much I disagree with their ideas on career planning.

Steve,

I agree! So, don't hire a paid professional from outside once the church has leaders internally. I know, it's not easy to get people to change their expectations.

Julie,

A good man willing to consult with others is needed to be the evangelist training church leadership. If there are elders in place, it is even better if he works with them in selecting people for preparation. Or, let people volunteer and see how far they can be taken.

Thanks to everyone for reading and sharing your thoughts!

I think it is vital for churches to be training me...

2007-11-15T11:59:00.000-05:00
I think it is vital for churches to be training members to lead (as paid or unpaid ministers). Unfortunately in the churches that I have seen do this what actually results is a sort of popularity contest. The Pastor chooses to mentor the guys he likes (the cool inner crowd) and shuts out any opportunity for "different" guys and all women. So if this sort of training takes places there needs to be guidelines to ensure the entire body of Christ can be trained in such ways.

Yes, a church of 250 members should have a full, o...

2007-11-15T11:26:00.000-05:00
Yes, a church of 250 members should have a full, or at least a wide range of ministries.

The trouble is that if there are all these ministers, and you hire a new one-man-band type of minister, he'll see them as a threat and squash them. I've seen that happen too.

I agree strongly with what you've said. Paid mini...

2007-11-15T10:55:00.000-05:00
I agree strongly with what you've said. Paid ministry has it's place but its not an always everywhere solution, ministry has become a career for too many and church leadership should be about planned redundancy.

It alarmed me when I went through theological college seeing people even before they graduated and held down a full-time church role planning their career out in clear steps. It alarms me even more now, a decade after graduating, seeing how many of them have landed exactly the "jobs" they set out for.

Adam,

While I don't necessarily agree with ...

2007-11-14T20:51:00.000-05:00
Adam,

While I don't necessarily agree with your opening premise that Paul's words in 1 Cor 9:14 and 1 Tim 5:17-18 refer to paying a salary to elders/pastors, I do appreciate this post very much. The idea of selecting someone from within the church as an elder/pastor is rare within my baptist tradition as well. For the most part, baptist churches follow the same methods of hiring that you will find in many business. But, I think your opening premise may be one of the reasons that we find ourselves in this predicament. We are not looking among the church because we are looking for "professional vocational ministers". However, I like your idea of discipling those who will later lead the church. I just happen to think that they can lead the church while holding down a job at the same time.

-Alan

Comments on Igneous Quill: The Check That Controls

I couldn't agree more:If we have hired ...

Yep - we be thinking alike bro. Good word.

Hi Adam. I found this post through a comment you ...

I like what you say about one man show pastors. I...

Alan,Reading the whole post I think you ge...

I think it is vital for churches to be training me...

Yes, a church of 250 members should have a full, o...

I agree strongly with what you've said. Paid mini...

Adam,While I don't necessarily agree with ...

I couldn't agree more:

If we have hired ...

Alan,

Reading the whole post I think you ge...

Adam,

While I don't necessarily agree with ...